CDS 4.8 isn't running at correct rpm

[Bryce C]

My Hydramaster CDS 4.8 starts at around 1100 rpm on the high setting, and slowly loses rpm and drops to around 600 rpm Weak vacuum, water pump has weak pressure, and my local truckmount service people say they won't work on it. The don't service anything on the engine side of pto setups.

It is a 2013 and doesn't have the adjustable vacuum pods like I read some older models have. There is an electrical pod under the dash but I don't know if anything is adjustable on it. The local truckmount service folks checked for vacuum leaks in the lines that may affect this and didn't find any. They think it is electrical.

I'm waiting to hear back from a friend who is a Hydramaster tech I met at MF this year. For now, do any folks with experience with these CDS systems have any thoughts?

 

[Bryce C]

Based on what they saw, the local truckmount service folks think the tm will be in great shape once this engine rpm issue gets resolved... The van is a 2500 Express

I set out to buy this thing in April, couldn't pick it up until May because they rebuilt the van engine, and here I am in June and I still haven't cleaned with this thing once

 

[Bryce C]

Well, looks like the previous owner just spliced in the electrical rather than getting the proper harness. My friend at Hydramaster just helped me realize that. He's ordering me the right harness and will talk me through installing it when it comes in. Things are looking up. Maybe..!

 

[Dwain Ray]

Well, looks like the previous owner just spliced in the electrical rather than getting the proper harness. My friend at Hydramaster just helped me realize that. He's ordering me the right harness and will talk me through installing it when it comes in. Things are looking up. Maybe..! View attachment 131308View attachment 131307

Heres the installation/ operation/ troubleshooting for that throttle controller hope it helps. I had to screen shot it. I have it as a pdf file and i don't know how to send it if you have any questions i built my machine from scratch and used this same throttle controller and im familiar with it

 

[Dwain Ray]

You have 3 leds not on in picture or are flashing and show as off. What are is the description marked for each light?

 

[Bryce C]

You have 3 leds not on in picture or are flashing and show as off. What are is the description marked for each light?

Thanks Dwain! The 7 led lights that are on, they flash on and off together in sync continuously when the machine is powered up. I just took a pic at a moment with them flashing on. The 3 lights that are not on at all, and do no flash on, are "rpm1", "rpm2", and "chrg".

The instruction manual you kindly posted pics of doesn't list my 2013 Chevy 2500 Express as a supported make/model...

What do you make of the hack splice without the appropriate 16 pin harness?

 

[Dwain Ray]

If spliced to the right post, it shouldn't be a problem the controller wiring harness from the factory comes with a obd2 plug on it and you plug it into the vans port. I didn't like that because inorder to diagnose using the port you had to first unplug the throttle controller. I used an obd2 splitter which does the same as tapping the back except its plug n play. You remove your vans obd2 wiring from dash and plug it into the splitter mount 1 end of the splitter to the dash and plug the throttle controller into the remaining port allowing me to use the obd2 port and throttle controller simultaneously but wiring to the back does the same. But because I was doing this to a new van i didn't want to deal with any potential warranty issues

 

[Dwain Ray]

If any of the lights are flashing on the throttle controller thats an indication of a problem the lights are supposed to be on solid are you aware that controller is connected to the emergency brake??? If the transmission is not in park and the emergency brake is not engaged the throttle controller will not work ( safty features)

 

[Bryce C]

If any of the lights are flashing on the throttle controller thats an indication of a problem the lights are supposed to be on solid are you aware that controller is connected to the emergency brake??? If the transmission is not in park and the emergency brake is not engaged the throttle controller will not work ( safty features)

Yes the emergency brake was engaged when I was testing it out. I was under the impression the clutch drive wouldn't even engage if the emergency brake isn't engaged...

 

[Dwain Ray]

Im not sure of any of that im really not familiar with your machine. my machine is all custom built with off the shelf parts from 5 different manufacturers one of which is the same model throttle controller as you have i can clutch in and out without the emergency brake. My system has a master switch on the dash that powers up and shuts down everything machine,wastepump, waterpond lighting, everything

 

[Nate The Great]

Im not sure of any of that im really not familiar with your machine. my machine is all custom built with off the shelf parts from 5 different manufacturers one of which is the same model throttle controller as you have i can clutch in and out without the emergency brake. My system has a master switch on the dash that powers up and shuts down everything machine,wastepump, waterpond lighting, everything

View attachment 131324 View attachment 131325 View attachment 131326 View attachment 131327 View attachment 131328 View attachment 131329 View attachment 131330

Showoff!

 

[Nate The Great]

You can always do the Bawb Vawter route when in doubt.. Put the stick wedged between the driver's seat and gas pedal.. Adjust the seat to hit the correct rpm.. Done in a pinch to finish a job.. Yes it may be ghetto, but it works..

 

[Bryce C]

You can always do the Bawb Vawter route when in doubt.. Put the stick wedged between the driver's seat and gas pedal.. Adjust the seat to hit the correct rpm.. Done in a pinch to finish a job.. Yes it may be ghetto, but it works..

Hot dang, that's a great idea! Thanks Nate!

 

[Cleanworks]

You can always do the Bawb Vawter route when in doubt.. Put the stick wedged between the driver's seat and gas pedal.. Adjust the seat to hit the correct rpm.. Done in a pinch to finish a job.. Yes it may be ghetto, but it works..

I always found a rolling measuring stick worked well. Adjustable for the correct rpm. At least by ear anyway.

 

[Bryce C]

I fixed it. The throttle module was bad. I replaced it with a brand new one, plugged everything in and it works perfectly. I set the low, medium, and high speeds to 1300, 1400, and 1500 rpms. Now I need a new pressure regulator, it is stuck wide open. Is it worth cleaning them out or do they tend to be toast once they get stuck?

 

[Dwain Ray]

I fixed it. The throttle module was bad. I replaced it with a brand new one, plugged everything in and it works perfectly. I set the low, medium, and high speeds to 1300, 1400, and 1500 rpms. Now I need a new pressure regulator, it is stuck wide open. Is it worth cleaning them out or do they tend to be toast once they get stuck?

Glad you got it fixed. If you look at your new one when running youll see what i was talking about when i said som of your LEDs weren't lit or flashing. All LEDs on solid says good shape if off that system or the module is self is bad. As for your pressure regulator goes my advice is to throw it away and get a new one

 

[Bryce C]

Glad you got it fixed. If you look at your new one when running youll see what i was talking about when i said som of your LEDs weren't lit or flashing. All LEDs on solid says good shape if off that system or the module is self is bad. As for your pressure regulator goes my advice is to throw it away and get a new one

Not exactly all LEDs are on solid. All of them except RPM 1, RPM2, and CHRG are on. And from what I understand this module doesn't come with a CHRG mode, and only 1 of the 3 RPM modes will be lit to indicate which one you have selected at the machine.

But the ones lit in this picture are on solid, not blinking. And the maching is idling correctly. Now I just need to find the right regulator to order. Maybe 2 I suppose...

And figure out this other problem I am having. I'll post it elsewhere.

 

[Dwain Ray]

Rpm 1 and rpm 2 and rpm3 will be on when that circuit is ingaged a im not sure about chrage circuit i think it has to have a wire connected to the controller for that. My understanding is that the charge circuit is for some installations where theres a large draw on the battery at idle. It senses voltage and raises rpm to charge when voltage drops below a preset limit. Not used on carpet cleaning equipment. By the way thank you for the update. So many ask for advice on fourms and you never hear from them. Your left not knowing weather or not you wasted your time responding or if they even got there problem solved or just gave up. Its refreshing and great to hear the final results

 

[Bryce C]

You're welcome for the update. And thank you for the assistance my friend! Maybe you can help me get this thing running. Someday I'll clean carpets with it. For now just looking ugly in my driveway, me and the van. Next up is the heat exchanger..

 

[Dwain Ray]

Are you talking about the long tube heat exchanger or the salsa blower heat exchanger? Generally speaking if the machine is not getting heat its the long heat exchanger and was probably over pressurized and collapsed the copper tubes inside as far as descaling goes , if you have a chemical pump you probably don't have a scaling problem with that tube and shell heat exchanger the coolant runs thru the tubes and the soulition beings heated surrounds the tubes. So if the heat exchanger is plugged it would be plugged on the coolant side or in an over pressurized situation the tubes are collapsed and coolant cant get thru to heat the soulition. The salsa unit works and for the most part looks like a small square air conditioner condenser (frontof radiator in cars). Soulition goes thru the many tubes and the heat is transferred thru the fins. The salsa unit is an "afterburner of sorts and rather that heats it boosts the heat already provided maybe 15 or 20° so if you have little or no heat i would suspect collapsed tubes rather than problems with the salsa unit or scaling. Im on my way to my shop i have a few bad tube and shell heat exchangers laying around. Ill take some pictures to show you what to look for

 

[Bryce C]

It's the long tube heat exchanger that I am trying to get off. There isn't much heat so I think that's the problem. Whether I need to get a new one or clean it out, I still need to figure out how to get it off. The bolts are just spinning in place and they go right into the waste reservoir. I suppose I could cut them and drill them out but I feel like I am missing something...

 

[Dwain Ray]

Steamgeni used the same tube and shell heat exchangers as hydramaster except there about 18" shorter and they bundled 3 in series heres a bad one look ing at the tubes from the soulition side(top) you can see they're crushed and by shining a flashlight thru the coolant side (end)you can see how little light and for thats matters coolant can get thru. You mentioned that your pressure regulator maxed out. If so that will crush these tubes. These heat exchangers new are only rated for 900 or so psi max. Another indicator of a collapsed tube and shell heat exchanger is that alot of times when tjey collapse high pressure leaks to low in other words your soulition at say 400+ psi will seep into your cooling system which is at 14 or so psi you this if slow enough will build pressure in your cooling system till the radiator cap releases the pressure and starts eighter over filling the Reservoir (if installed) and or dumping coolant mixed with soulition on to the driveway

 

[Dwain Ray]

It's the long tube heat exchanger that I am trying to get off. There isn't much heat so I think that's the problem. Whether I need to get a new one or clean it out, I still need to figure out how to get it off. The bolts are just spinning in place and they go right into the waste reservoir. I suppose I could cut them and drill them out but I feel like I am missing something...

See my next comment for advice and troubleshooting

 

[Dwain Ray]

It's the long tube heat exchanger that I am trying to get off. There isn't much heat so I think that's the problem. Whether I need to get a new one or clean it out, I still need to figure out how to get it off. The bolts are just spinning in place and they go right into the waste reservoir. I suppose I could cut them and drill them out but I feel like I am missing something...

There probably bolts that go thru the wastetank. Maybe you can open up the wastetank and put a wrench or socket on the other end

 

[Bryce C]

So probably just order a new one. Still need to get it off... But how do I prevent a pressure regulator from getting stuck wide open? Maybe I screwed up fiddling with it when I first used it

 

[Bryce C]

There probably bolts that go thru the wastetank. Maybe you can open up the wastetank and put a wrench or socket on the other end

Thats just it, there is no nut on the inside of the waste tank. I tried grabbing the rubber grommet with a wrench and it just broke, so I peeled it off and there isn't a nut or anything. So it seems it is just threaded through the metal of waste tank. Doesn't seem right but I dont know. Maybe I'm missing it. I'll go look again...

 

[Dwain Ray]

If (and you most likely wiil) need to replace the heat exchanger and hydramaster gives you the runaround i have the phone number of the manufacturer in Florida when steamgeni went outa business i badgered there then head of sales for it. There built to order and takes 3 or 4 weeks to get um and you better have a couple of shots and be sittin down when you get the price. The ones i have were about 900.00 each

 

[Dwain Ray]

So probably just order a new one. Still need to get it off... But how do I prevent a pressure regulator from getting stuck wide open? Maybe I screwed up fiddling with it when I first used it

Its bad throw it away. The only other thing you can do is install a emergency pressure relief something like whats on the

in the system. (Something like whats on your homes water heater but it there is a temperature relief also)You would have to research it out and fab it up

 

[Bryce C]

If (and you most likely wiil) need to replace the heat exchanger and hydramaster gives you the runaround i have the phone number of the manufacturer in Florida when steamgeni went outa business i badgered there then head of sales for it. There built to order and takes 3 or 4 weeks to get um and you better have a couple of shots and be sittin down when you get the price. The ones i have were about 900.00 each

Thanks Dwain. I thought it was going to $1500 or more. $900 would be a relief to me. I'll get on it. And hopefully tomorrow the 4 bolts holding the exchanger on behave differently.

 

[Dwain Ray]

Thats just it, there is no nut on the inside of the waste tank. I tried grabbing the rubber grommet with a wrench and it just broke, so I peeled it off and there isn't a nut or anything. So it seems it is just threaded through the metal of waste tank. Doesn't seem right but I dont know. Maybe I'm missing it. I'll go look again...

Cut it off and when reinstall use stainless threaded stock with a jam nut and rtv holding it to the tank